Hello,

Yesterday I have to update my good flying KDS 600 V2 because the new Spirit Settings tool on Android didn´t support the old Firmware Version anymore (please make the Android App backwards compatible).

I have a linear pot on the throttle channel and a throttle kill switch to instantly kill the throttle

I did the following steps.
- Disconnect Battery
- Disconnect two phases of the Motor
- connect the USB to Spirit cable
- Connect Battery
- started the old Software
- made a backup from the settings
- started the new software made the update
- load the backup from old spirit fw (ignored the warning)
- switched through all tabs and had a look on the variables all seems like they should
- turned governor off (to learn throttle curve in the ESC)
- saved all in the spirit Bank0 (didn´t use Bank switching)
- disconnect Battery
- made a linear -100%...100% throttle curve in transmitter
- connected all three motor phases to hear the beeps
- set transmitter to 100%
- connect battery
- hear the beeps
- set transmitter to -100%
- hear the beeps
- disconnect battery
- reconnect battery
- started the new software
- turned governor back on
- slow spoolup
- governor performance 4
- holding performance 4
- max headspeed 2200
- other settings like before (gear ratio and sensig divider)
- set transmitter throttle curve to -100...60 like before with FW2.0.2 (60 should be 1760rpm)
- saved all
- disconnect battery
- go to the field
- disconnected two motor phases
- connect battery
- connect with spirit settings on Android
- switch to rpm reading/requested rpm
- set transmitter to 60 throttle
- requested rpm is at 1760rpm like expected
- disconnect battery
- set transmitter to startup settings (throttle -100....)
- connect all three motor phases again
- made startup test (all servos working in the right direction no slip and so on)
- switched motor kill switch (throttle jumps instantly from -100 to 60)
- no spoolup of the motor
- checked the throttle value in the transmitter yes it was 60 like expected and the throttle kill switch set it to -100
- switched motor kill switch (trhottle now -100)
- turned potentiometer down
- switched motor kill switch (throttle -100)
- slowly turned potentiometer high
- motor starts at 50% of throttle (value 0 at my transmitter) governor kicks in
- governor spool up very very high (sounds like it gives 100% throttle to the ESC)
- killed motor with kill switch because 100% throttle is like 2500rpm much to high for my blades and everything
- go to the spirit settings app (android) and looked if all parameters are like they should
- go to rpm readings/rpm requested
- turned potentiometer down
- switched kill switch (throttle -100 but potentiometer on)
- turned potentiometer slowly up motor spins up with very low rpm
- no readings of rpm (is rpm reading active when the governor is not engaged (below 50% throttle))
- disconnected app
- turned potentiometer higher so that the sound is like before when the heli is flown
- take off
- everything is shaking on nick and roll
- motor kill
- landing in autorotion (shaking goes down after motor kill)
- go home and wrote this post the next morning

My questions:
Is rpm reading active when the governor is not engaged (below 50% throttle)?
If so then my rpm sensor is bad and the behavior of the governor was right (spool up to 100% throttle because there is no rotation measured).

Is there a way to get the old Spirit Settings app for android so that I could stick on FW 2.0.2? Because the Heli was great with that firmware.

So this is a very large post
thank you in advance.

Hi,

from your description it looks like many things could change and cause the problem, especially newly configured throttle ranges.

Actually it is even not needed to save and load the settings again after the update. So if you just flash new firmware and go flying the result could be much better with no issues.

Governor is disabled when TC is under 50% and throttle is passed directly.
Shaking could be caused because Governor Response is very high (if nothing else was changed). After the update only things you have to do is to readjust two governor gains - Governor Response and Holding performance. So if it worked well with 2.0.2 then you do not have to do anything else just to readjust these two values to get same or better performance.

I believe that your problem is somewhere in the new throttle range settings. Thus after downgrade it could behave in the similar way too except the governor values will be OK.

Yes, you can go back to any version, but downgrade is not right solution. But with the same settings that you have backupped (+ same throttle range) it must work as it worked previously. I can send you link for older APK for Spirit Settings.
On the other hand I am convinced it will work better with 2.1.0 when we will find the problem.

_________________
Spirit System developer

Thanks I try to reduce the governor gains the next time.

The Heli was a little bit shaky in nick and roll (the swashplate) with 2.0.2 too. But I could still fly the first LiPo. Then for the second LiPo I would readjust the cyclic gain and couldn't connect be ause Firmware in spirit pro was too old. Thats where my Probleme begun;-)

With 2.1.0 the shaking was Zoo hard to fly Linzer then a few seconds.

As a feauture suggestion: Plesse make the throttle Sensor read out even if the governer isn't active (below 50% throttle) and even if the governor isn't activated. So everyone could check if the rpm sensor is working on the field. I haven't the courage to go beyond 50% throttle standing in the range of my bluetooth.
Thanks.

Please attach your settings so I can check it.
For sure something should be changed in any way - there shouldn't be any shake anytime.

Maybe increasing Elevator Filter can solve your problem, but I am only guessing.
What is your helicopter setup (servos, blades)?

_________________
Spirit System developer

Hello,

Here is my actual configuration:
- KDS Innova 600 V2
- Turnigy K-Force 120A HV Opto
- Orange RPM Sensor
- Rotorstar RS-550MGC-HV on Swashplate
- Rotorstar RS-715 MG HV on Tail
- Rotorstar 1100kv Brushless Outrunner
- Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 30C LiPo
- 10 Keto BEC 2-12S input

Gearing
- 12T on motor
- 115T on main gear

Motor Data:
1100 rpm/v
Stator Pole 12
Motor Pole 8

So I think that's all information you need.

Great!

Thank you very much.

First from all, you should set Servo frequency as high as possible - this will improve the performance a lot.
For Cyclic you can set 200Hz.
For Rudder 333Hz.

Then you can set Advanced/Rudder Delay to value 0-5. This should improve rudder performance as well.
Then I can see that Subtrims are in the default (all 0). Did you configured the subtrims in some way?
If swashplate/servos are not trimmed precisely, flight behavior can be bad.

I believe that increasing frequency will help you a lot.

_________________
Spirit System developer

Hello Thanks for the quick reply.

I set up the subtrims mechanically. Through the length of the connectors between servo and swashplate. The servo arms (I hope it the right word I mean the plastic thing put directly on the servo) are in 90° position to the servo also.
I didn´t set up a subtrim or any other trim in my transmitter the only thing I set up in the transmitter are the end points so that they match 0...100 (or was it -100...100) in the spirit software.

The mechanical setup is so accurate that I could turn the rotor to all 90° position with the pitch gauge on the blade and the tolerance in 0° pitch is +-0.2° (set the spirit to the 0° setting/holding of servos). Tested on both blades with an test if the pitch gauge is working correctly afterwards and in between changing the gauge from blade 1 to blade 2 because I couldn´t believe the result. Recalibration wasn´t needed at all by changing from blade1 to blade2. And the gap between both blades while hovering isn´t visible at all (didn´t know the english word for this).
So I think I didn´t need any subtrim and the mechanics is trimmed good enough?

I will try it with the increased frequency but the main problem was my governor because the Heli was flying great with 2.0.2. The very little shake only appeared once when there was no wind but safe to fly (the other 20-30 flights there was everytime wind and no shakes at all). The shaking increased heavily after the upgrade to 2.1.0 so that I couldn´t fly safely.

One thing what made me wonder are the endpoints of the rudder which are very low/high. But again I have done 20-30 flights with these settings and everything was great except a very little shake with no wind. The mechanic is set up to have a little 2-3° pitch in the rudder with the servo in 90° position.

Today I will test with decreased cyclic gain (to reduce the shake) and governor gains at 1 and then slightly increase the gains by one until governor is fine. After that I test your suggestions.

Thanks.

Hello Tomasz (I hope I wrote your name correctly)

So I tested today and the Heli flies again. But I couldn't do more than two short flights because the linkage and one blade broke at a hard landing and I have to purchase new blades. So I couldn't test all of your suggestions. But with lower governor gains and lower cyclic gain the performance was like with 2.0.2

One last question the first time I wanted to start the rotor I switched the Kill switch to motor on position (throttle signal jumps from -100 to 60) and the motor didn't spool up (like with 2.0.2). Then I switched to motor off and on again and then the motor spools up. Is this a feauture that you have to switch motor on-off-on to start or am I missing something?

I fly with DSMX lemonrx diversity satellites on both ports of Spirit pro.

Thanks for your help

Hello,

thats great.

Was the motor off completely during initialization?
If no, then there is a protection so that you can't accidently spoolup the motor.

So during initialization it should be always at 0% (in the Diagnostic tab).

_________________
Spirit System developer

Hello,

Ohkay I think I found the problem then. my normal throttle range goes from -100...100 (calibrated the ESC with) but with motor kill (off position) I send -110. Thats because I had an old Walkera with everything stock and tho motor didn´t go off at -100 even if the calibration was done with -100.

But did the protection came up with 2.1.0 or was it present in 2.0.2 also?
I ask because with 2.0.2 the motor spool up like expected with the same radio settings.

regards