I have lost rudder control (CH4) after updating to 2.0.1

Helicopter: Goblin 500
FBL: Spirit
Servos: MKS 9767 / 990
Tx: Spektrum DX6
Rx: 2 DSMX sats

Channel assignments:
CH1: throttle
CH2: AIL
CH3: ELE
CH4: RUDDER
CH5: GYRO (bank switching)
CH6: PITCH

After updating to 2.0.1 from 1.3.4 my rudder servo on CH4 no longer responds to stick movements. I can make it move when setting up the tail end points in the Spirit software, but that's it. Pulse / freq. are correct, and the servo has been verified good.

This heli with this Spirit worked flawlessly for hundreds of flights before updating. Last flight was yesterday.

In the monitor of my Tx, CH4 shows proper value change with stick moment. But in the diagnostic window of the Spirit software, the value of CH4 is stuck at 118.

If I swap channels so that rudder is controlled by CH5 and bank switching on CH4, then the stick properly controls the tail servo but the CH4 bank switching no longer changes values with switch movement.

I have another Spirit on a KDS 450 with the exact same channel mapping which has not been updated yet. ALL channels from Tx still work properly on this heli.

I have tried using the wizard set up and doing so manually.

Any suggestions?

Thank you, Andy

Hello,

basically channel mapping shouldn't change at all after the update, so the problem is quite strange.

Can you attach your settings for bank 0 here, please?
It should work with very default settings out of the box (only correct receiver type is needed).

Thank you!

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Spirit System developer

Thanks very much for the response!

I've been digging a little more and discovered this:

The rudder servo (CH4) responds properly when throttle cut and hold are turned off. I had not tried that before, but this afternoon I disconnected the motor from the ESC. If either hold or throttle cut are engaged, the rudder stops responding. Throttle values in the Tx are -30% and -150% respectively for the two.

When both are off, it appears to work nominally - rudder responds to stick inputs and compensates manual rotation of the heli. This is verified both in the diagnostic window of the Sprit software and the actual hardware.

Also, as an I aside, I see that with 2.0.1 I map a channel directly to bank switching rather than via gyro gain. I don't think this is part of the problem, but it is a difference this time around.

Bank 0 is attached.

Andy, bank switching has always been achieved through a channel.

What negative Gyro gain value does is activate the selected Stabi function.

Of course, you can use the Gyro channel as the bank selector, and set Gyro gain values in the Spirit software. But in this case, it's just "a channel" and has nothing to do with changing the Gyro gain values anymore.

Just a matter of wording (note the difference between Gyro channel and Gyro gain values).

That said... why -30 and -150?
How do they look in the Diagnostic screen?
Your TC should look 0 there!

One more question... you say you use CH5 for bank switching, but your Bank channel is unassigned, your Gyro channel is assigned, so you use it for Gyro gain. You have no possibility of Bank switching. Nor Rescue, since Stabi is disabled. So if you send a negative Gyro gain value you will simply end up in Rate Mode.

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Oxy 2 ♦ X-Vert ♦ Warp 360 ♦ Blade 450X ♦ Blade 450X Nightflyer ♦ Goblin 500 (RIP) ♦ 2 X mCPX v2 ♦ night fly mQX ♦ LadyMQX ♦ nano QX ♦ nano QX FPV ♦ Inductrix ♦ DX8 G1

Coco66-

Thanks for getting back to me. I understand the gyro vs. bank switching, I probably didn't write clearly enough. With older versions of Spirit firmware as you know changing gyro gain was required for stability and rescue. Probably that file I uploaded I hadn't assigned bank switching yet - but I understand the process and I don't think it's a driver for this problem. Spirit rescue has saved my helis dozens of times in the past, so I'm confident in setting that up properly.

Regarding the throttle values - those are the lowest possible values in my DX6 transmitter for TC and TH. I don't understand their rationale behind the numbers, but that's what the TX does. Those values result in a -24% throttle value in the Spirit diagnostic window when I initialize with both TH and TC engaged. Then if I disengage both TC and TH, throttle goes to my preset values per my throttle curves.

However, if I then re-engage TC and / or TH, there is no response and the motor keeps spinning! Diagnostic window shows no change of throttle value when they are engaged. This is very confusing!

Andy, sorry if I sound picky, but... nothing changed in the way you activate the Stabi functions.

Anyway.

I am NOT surprised that your ESC is doing something strange if you operate with stuff like -150...

I think you misunderstood something about TC and TH.
Do you need autorotation bailout, that's why you have two?

If you forget autorotation bailout, the TX endpoints and TH / TC features should be set so that Diagnostic screen reads 0 when TC/TH is on and 100% when the throttle is at maximum. After that, you need to calibrate your ESC using the Min and Max of the Governor screen.

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Oxy 2 ♦ X-Vert ♦ Warp 360 ♦ Blade 450X ♦ Blade 450X Nightflyer ♦ Goblin 500 (RIP) ♦ 2 X mCPX v2 ♦ night fly mQX ♦ LadyMQX ♦ nano QX ♦ nano QX FPV ♦ Inductrix ♦ DX8 G1

Thanks again Coco66-

OK, I think it is working, it looks like throttle is related to the problem. But I’m more confused than ever!

Throttle settings: These were unchanged from my previous 300+ flight history, why it’s problematic now is a mystery.

In the DX6, zero is not always zero.

To get the Spirit to show 0 throttle in the diagnostic window with the TC engaged, my DX6 is set to -100% throttle with a TC Position of -67%. Previously this was -150% / -150%. I can upload pics of the DX6 screen if you’re interested, but I’ll move on…

When I modified TC to show 0 throttle in Spirit window, I regained tail servo control. But when I’d engage TH, tail control would disappear again. That was with TH throttle curve set at -30%, the lowest allowed value. To add insult to injury, TH would kill the tail servo but lock throttle at whatever the last value was, not as set in the TH throttle curve.

Then I changed TH throttle curve to be 1% (instead of a negative value), and all appears to work properly.

I use TH as a double safety with TC so that the inadvertent bump of one switch can’t start the blades spinning. TH pitch curve is +/- 100 % with a plateau at 0% for diagnostics. I don’t do autos, other than a meter or two off the deck with TC where bailout is not needed

My ESC is Kontronik Jive LV, so I use that governor rather than Spirit. I do not think ESC calibration is needed with this set up - at least it wasn’t for 300 flights.

Subjective question: Should I be afraid to fly this heli? I'll do thorough bench testing before spinning blades, but this problem has been a little unnerving.

Andy the way TC works changed completly from 1.3 to 2.0
You tell Spirit whats 0..100% on diagnostics. Where hold is 0% and full is 100%
Normaly this matches -125 +125 in TX Monitor.

Next in spirit you tell Spirit, what it should send as lowest value to ESC (min Range) and whats full TC (max range)
this values are hard limits, think of TC servos in nitro which should not go over these limits as things might bend.
So, Spirit will match 0% to min rang value and 100% to max rang value.
Now, its obvious, lower -125 and higher 125 won't do anything.
Put 1100us and 1900us in range values, if your jive won‘t init, lower the min value, till it initiates.

In regards to your rudder issue, sounds like some mixer stuff.
I suggest to define a clean DX6 profile and reset the spirit walking trough config wizzard.
I did setup 3 models with 2.0 with no issues.

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Oxy4max SpiritPro + HW // SOXOS 550, SpiritPro, HW120A V4, 920KV // SOXOS 600, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro650 // SOXOS Strike7, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro750 // Skywing Spirit Aero // FrSky Horus X10S + Taranis X7 /

Thanks Adrian-

I just ran two packs through the heli, all appears to be working fine including rescue.

However, your comments below make me want to double check something. Per Kontronik, this how the ESC and transmitter work together:

"The ESC works fine from 50-80%. Your Transmitter is than approximately 40-60 % open."

This presumes the formula 50% PWM + (XX% Tx throttle)/2 = YY% throttle to motor. For example, 50% PWM + (60% Tx throttle)/2 = 80% throttle to motor. So that's why I would not exceed 60% Tx throttle to keep ESC at or below 80%.

That is directly from their customer service rep.

With 2.0 on Spirit, is this approached differently?

Plug a Servo with Y cable on ESC port and you see what is going to ESC.

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Oxy4max SpiritPro + HW // SOXOS 550, SpiritPro, HW120A V4, 920KV // SOXOS 600, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro650 // SOXOS Strike7, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro750 // Skywing Spirit Aero // FrSky Horus X10S + Taranis X7 /