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Re: Throttle range adj. not as expected FW 1.3.1 (solved)
https://www.spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=978		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Adrian [ Fri 16. Oct 2015 22:00:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adj. not as expected FW 1.3.1 (solved)
I had troubles to adjust throttle range, so I took a closer look and did some analyses with Oscilloscope.
Use current FW 1.3.1 with Gov unchecked in throttle settings.

1. Frequency not correct
60Hz, 120Hz and 200Hz works, however selecting 333Hz gives also 200Hz output.
On Cyclic, frequencies work as selectable.

2. Throttle range not adjustable as expected
I checked Pulse output on my DX9, with -100% it gives 1100us and with 100% 1900us on a Spektrum RX Receiver. This ranges give 0%-100% on throttle diagnostics in Spirit, so this matches up, however on Throttle Output I only see 1165us and 1843us.

My Castle Creation Edge needs <1000us for Init/OFF and >1890us for full throttle, range and programming.

I tried to adjust with min max Throttle range, but cold not relay adjust. I discovered the following:
Had to lower min to -145 to meet 990us however, this did also lower Full Throttle out from 1843us to 1665us to compensate this tried to rise max range, but it had no effect on max, it stayed at 1661 lowering from 100 did only show effect after going lower than 66.
I would understand, min and max should extend the Range as kind of multiplication. min on <1500us and max on >1500us. However currently it's somehow moving the range by min and limiting upwards.

I'm not able to meet full throttle out as I cant get above 1661us.
I tried different approach to meet ESC range. I did extended TX out to +/-128% which on regular RX gives 990us to 2002us which should match ESC. Throttle diagnostics now showed from -14% to +109%, with no Throttle range correction I get 1070us and 1848us.
Once again, lowering min to -120 gave 990us but max stayed this time at 1848 even with 150 I could not go above, but reduction started this time going any lower than 100.

I would need 1890us to go full throttle and doing ESC stick programming.

Please have a closer look into the range calculation, as it's not giving what would be expected.
1) The output with Range -100 +100 is different to what it should be on regular RX
2) Range min moves total range down instead of expanding low side only
3) Range max is not relay having linear effect on high side and is somehow limited 1848.
4) 333Hz is only running on 200Hz.

Let me know if I can support you with future test.
Best regards, Adrian
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Mon 19. Oct 2015 17:33:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
Hello Adrian,

many thanks for your report and very good description.
You are right, point 1 is what we have to fix.

For point 2 I think that there is a problem in how it behaves.
First from all you have to use your Min. parameter to configure lower position of your throttle range. This is behaving like channel subtrim in your transmitter.
Then you have to configure Max. parameter which is behaving differently. This parameter determine upper, absolute limit of your throttle range.
But if you will move with Min. it will move as well in such direction.

So Max. parameter should be always configured after Min. parameter. To test whole range, you can disable governor and use linear throttle curve from 0 - 100% in your transmitter.
If it will work properly, you can enable governor.
Author:  Coco66 [ Mon 19. Oct 2015 20:29:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
Not sure I understand... most ESCs require you to calibrate first the high throttle and then the low... how would this work then?
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Mon 19. Oct 2015 21:27:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
This is something different. If you can calibrate your ESC, then Min. and Max. parameters shouldn't be used at all.
So primary this is for combustion helicopters and for ESC where calibration is not possible.
Author:  Coco66 [ Mon 19. Oct 2015 21:39:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
I thought you first have to use Travel Adjust in the TX to make the Diagnostic screen look correct on throttle (-100 +100), then use Min and Max to calibrate the ESC... at this point... does the manual explain this right and clearly??
Author:  Adrian [ Tue 20. Oct 2015 11:03:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
Thx coming back. Well I did it exactly as explained.
I do use Castle Edge with external Governor, which allows only fix endpoints.
Pulses: OFF 1.06ms / Bailout 1.06-1.2ms / Full 1.89ms
There is no possibility to adjust push rod and Servo arms :lol:
FW 1.31 with DSMX Satellites

1) Disabled Governor in Spirit (Save and Powercycle Spirit)
2) Set TX do give 0..100% throttle output on Diagnostics (in DX9 matching -100% +100)
3) Lowered Range min, till ESC gets armed (saved Setting)
4) Power Cycle Spirit and ESC with full throttle on TX
5) Increased Max to get to full throttle, which I was not able to reach.

This lead me to analyses the output, where I discovered as described:
1) Pulse is different to what I see normal on RX on ESC Side. With TX -100%/+100% I see normally 1.100ms and 1.900ms on Receiver out, on Spirit with no Range Adjustment out shows 1.165ms +6% and 1.843ms -5%.
However as I can adjust with Range, this is not relay an issue, but could make things easier on setup to just work. As easy setup, with defaults, is one of your gaols.
2) Range min does influence max out, which needs to be adjusted afterwards, if its intended fine.
3) I'm not able to adjust max Range, there is no effect if I had to lower min Range first by -145, Throttle out is limited by 1.848ms, Range max shows no effect between 66-150. below 66 Throttle pulse gets lowered, but never gets above 1.848 and I need >1.89ms.

I guess you implemented move of Linear equation by offset with Range min, while max influences somehow the slop angle and is limited on top.
I think Range min should influence slop with 100% as rotation Point, while Range max uses 0% as rotation point. If 0..100% is done previous this should work. In this case Range min and Range max have no influence on each other and Range max can be done first, as by ESC manufactures and Coco66 required/suggested.

Regards, Adrian

Attachments:
File comment: Visualize Slope ranges
Spirit_min_max_Range.pdf [79.77 KiB]
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Author:  elfew [ Tue 20. Oct 2015 11:39:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
You did it totally wrong with your throttle calibration for your esc


Please check videos from youtube - I configured over 10 esc from Castle connected to spirit without any issue. Right now I am not at home. I will contact you later
Author:  Adrian [ Tue 20. Oct 2015 12:31:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
Hi Elfew, thanks supporting me.

Just to clarify, I got Spirit with Governor and CC Edge up and running, as I did with other FBL like Brain/Ikon and VStabi with same HW configuration, but I discovered challenges as well as some limitations doing it. I'm more into bug and wish list to support development and improve System simplicity, as Tomas said 1st aim to take complexity out.

Looking forward to you explanation or pointing me to the right source to even understand it better.
Best regards, Adrian
Author:  elfew [ Wed 21. Oct 2015 22:36:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
1) Disabled Governor in Spirit (Save and Powercycle Spirit)
2) Set in TX throttle curve - linear curve 0% 25% 50% 75% 100% in the throttle curve tab
3) Lowered Range min and max in servo travel tab for throttle to 30% (for min and max)
4) Turn off the spirit (and ESC)
5) Turn off throttle hold, move your throttle stick to the max position AND POWER ON YOUR ESC AND SPIRIT
6) slowly add % in servo travel (throttle max) tab until you hear beeps from your ESC, then add two more % (2%)
7) move your throttle stick to the lowest possition
8) slowly add % in servo travel tab until you hear beeps from your ESC, then add two more % (2%)
9) Now, unplug battery
10) ESC throttle calibration is done!

I have DX9 with Castle Phoenix ICE 100A on one of my bird with 2xDSMX satelites. This method works without any problem
Author:  Adrian [ Thu 22. Oct 2015 10:43:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Throttle range adjustment not as expected
Thanks a lot for your time to share, I'll test it.
Just for clarification, you do also use your Castle ICE in the Mode External Governor, with fixed endpoints, right?
As ICE dose not offer RPM out I guess you use 3rd Party phase detector, which?

Point 3) You talk about Range min/max in DX9, right? As I understand, you do leave Throttle Range in Spirt on it's default min-100 / max+100?

With this procedure you do adjust Throttle range only within DX9, no adjustment in Spirit.
Could share the Servo Travels in DX9 you did end up?

Adding this link, later.......as I got a great working system.
******************************************************
To get my STEP by STEP Guide with Governor follow this post
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=996#p12017
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Hope this helps some out there.
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