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uSpirit PID value access?
https://www.spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4277		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  coolice [ Sun 13. Sep 2020 14:46:49 ]
Post subject:  uSpirit PID value access?
Afternoon All.

Question, can we get access to the tune/change the PID values of the aileron and elevator specifically?
I've not seen this in the PC software yet and it seems I need to get to them to fix my issues.

Cheers.

Ian Contessa
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Sun 13. Sep 2020 17:30:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: uSpirit PID value access?
Hello,

no, it is not possible.
The unit has autotuning algorithms and the issues that could arise can be tuned with already available parameters in all cases.
If not then something is wrong there.

Can you describe the problem please?
Author:  coolice [ Sun 13. Sep 2020 21:14:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: uSpirit PID value access?
Evening Buddy.

Ah ok, I did think this seeing as I couldn't see them.

Bascially this is an extension of my previous wobble problem with the converted OMP M2, the severe elevator wobble has been removed by dropping the geometry 6 degree value to acheive a blade pitch of 3.2 ~ 3.4 dergee's instead of the manual required 6.

While this now flies, on quick stab elevator inputs I can still see a bounce on the boom in the elevator axis which I have traced to the PID's having swapped out the uSpirit for an MSH Micro Brain.
Now this unit suffered the same sever wobbles, but has been tuned out with the availability of the PID values for me to tweak, instead of lowering the setup values.
Likewise the elevator boom bounce following quick stab inputs, was evident as I closed in on the ideal values, but has now been tuned out with altering them also.
Hence my question to ask if I can get to them, as it seems I need to for this model at least and the uSpirit is a very nice unit, so I didn't want to simply give up on it without delving deeper into the settings if this was possible.

Ian Contessa
Author:  myxiplx [ Sun 13. Sep 2020 22:51:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: uSpirit PID value access?
Wow, I learned something new today, really surprised you can't adjust PID on the Spirit, auto tuning is great to have, but for advanced pilots it's fairly common to tweak those to fine tune the performance.

Stop gains are something I've needed to adjust on most models I fly.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
Author:  coolice [ Mon 14. Sep 2020 11:29:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: uSpirit PID value access?
myxiplx wrote:
Wow, I learned something new today, really surprised you can't adjust PID on the Spirit, auto tuning is great to have, but for advanced pilots it's fairly common to tweak those to fine tune the performance.

Stop gains are something I've needed to adjust on most models I fly.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Hey Buddy.

I must admit I am surprised there isn't an expert settings tab with access to these parameters inside it.
Automatically setting things is brilliant, but there always comes a time when manual intervention is needed and in the case of my OMP M2 it needs it. This has been proven by the fact now i have a Micro Brain 2 on the same model, which exhibited the same traits following the bench setup, messing with the PID's has completely cured my issues.

Unfortunately I am at the end of the road with the uSpirit I think and it is for sale, so if it goes I will not be going forward anymore with it. Which makes me feel sad being honest as build quality wise it is amazing, but is lacking in the parameters needed for my model to get the best out of it.

Ian Contessa
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Mon 14. Sep 2020 11:39:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: uSpirit PID value access?
Hello,

until now, for over 10 years there was no single need of adjusting PID at any model, including very special ones. If you are getting bad results I am absolutely sure there is something wrong elsewhere. Very likely in the mechanics.

So normally we are trying to find what is wrong there. Very often it is too tight ball linkages which is often issue with new kits from SAB, Mikado and few other manufacturers. So instead of trying of doing a bypass for real and correct solution, other, uncommon settings are requested by you.
This is wrong way in our opinion. We would be glad to try find reason why you are getting bad results.

If you want to take way sith PID then I am afraid we can do nothing for you. Your model is not that different from thousands of others where Spirit units are flying perfectly, so it is clear it must work well too.
Author:  coolice [ Mon 14. Sep 2020 14:34:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: uSpirit PID value access?
ZeXx86 wrote:
Hello,

until now, for over 10 years there was no single need of adjusting PID at any model, including very special ones. If you are getting bad results I am absolutely sure there is something wrong elsewhere. Very likely in the mechanics.

So normally we are trying to find what is wrong there. Very often it is too tight ball linkages which is often issue with new kits from SAB, Mikado and few other manufacturers. So instead of trying of doing a bypass for real and correct solution, other, uncommon settings are requested by you.
This is wrong way in our opinion. We would be glad to try find reason why you are getting bad results.

If you want to take way sith PID then I am afraid we can do nothing for you. Your model is not that different from thousands of others where Spirit units are flying perfectly, so it is clear it must work well too.


Good Afternoon.

I appreciate this setup has been working for 10 years without issues, but in these 10 years lots of models have come along, some disappeared and designs have changed in that time. To my knowledge, other than one other person who I am chatting to also, I am yet to see any other OMP M2’s flying on a uSpirit. So this is new to me, your unit and the base settings.

Please don’t misunderstand me as I am not trying to sound ungrateful, as you have been very helpful in helping me try to diagnose what is going on with my OMP M2 conversion to a uSpirit.
However all you've managed to tell me is that my bench setup is wrong somewhere, which is causing the issue, which I can guarantee is not the case. I may not have the skills to program/design my own FBL unit, but with over 40 year’s helicopter flying experience with my main competition days spent in F3C, setting up a model properly is a skill I do have.
So while mistakes can and do happen, after the many times I spent going over it all, I would of found it and I have not.

One idea given to me was that the geometry 6 degree slider, which I'll admit set at 170 for my model seemed high, but this is where it needed to be to obtain the manuals requested 6 degree's, was that this could be the reason for the wobbles.
Which it was, as once I’d dropped it to a lower value that gave me 3.2 ~ 3.4 degrees measured on the grips, this got rid of the major violent wobble.
I had to combine this with completely turning off the elevator filter, which for my setup at least appeared to work in the complete opposite of what it was supposed to do, so instead of helping smooth elevator bounce, it increased it and the wobble.
In the end I did get the model hovering well, but it still exhibited this boom bounce on quick stab elevator inputs which I wanted to tune out if I could.

As above I have literally swapped the uSpirit for another makers unit, hit the exact same issues with the wobble’s and instead of working around them with deviating away from the manuals base values, I've gone and edited the gyro's responses to flight attitude changes and this fixed my problems.
Hence my question to ask if I could access these or not, as it fixed things and I didn’t want to simply give up.

Anyway a simple question was asked and has been answered, so we can’t do any better than that.

Keep up the good work and take care.

Ian Contessa
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Mon 14. Sep 2020 18:20:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: uSpirit PID value access?
For example there is high chance the servos are not working as they should. There could be some interference or something like that. It would be helpful to check what servos are doing when motor is running with no blades.

Anyway within years we have met with many, many very skilled pilots. Some encountered strange issues. They could put hand in fire as they were certain there was nothing wrong in their setup.
And then we have found the issue, always. Even that it took weeks in some cases as they were so certain they were unable to see problems that one might see in seconds.

All models are working in the same principle. Our units can work pretty well even with absolutely unique trains, much more special than OMP has. Actually there is nothing special with M2.

So there is no reason it should not work.

It should work properly with Geometry 6° at 170 if it is measured properly. After checking rotor head photos I can say the value could be real and correct.

So the only thing we can do is to get M2 to prove it can work well with nothing unexpected in settings is needed.
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