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Motor stop mid flight
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Author:  smgunn [ Thu 08. Oct 2015 14:28:06 ]
Post subject:  Motor stop mid flight
[list=]Well I give up on the governor for now. I had the Motor stop on my G380 2 minutes into the first flight after update. I was 6ft off the ground and inverted when I gave full negative pitch and the engine stops. Luckily I was able to flip it upright and have a decent hard landing save then then motor starts back up and I kill it with throttle hold. I will upload the log file later today but everything was normal on it until I have the hard landing I have a high vibe log followed by signal loss then gov engages again. There wasn't anything shown prior to the motor shutting off. Luckily nothing was damaged but I still have to go over the entire heli closely to make sure. I however cannot bring myself to trust the governor until I find out for sure what actually caused it. I didn't change any settings after the update except the bailout acro is now bailout normal in banks 1&2. I did go through the entire setup to make sure everything was right. [/list]
Author:  smgunn [ Thu 08. Oct 2015 22:16:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
Here is the file from the flight. I've gone over everything in the heli, Spirit and transmitter settings thoroughly and cannot find any reason for the incident. The motor and the esc soldered connections are not lose at all, I even cut away the heatshrink to be sure. All cables are secured and cannot move around in flight. I was only about 30 feet away from the heli at the time. I'm running a Hobbywing 100a platinum V3 esc. My head speed was 3250 (90%), I set the max Governor speed in the Spirit to 3600 on all 3 banks but I run 75%,85%,90% in in my transmitter. It's been working great before the update. I'm using 2 DSMX sats and a Spektrum DX9.
I didn't start the flight until 2 minutes into the logs. The first 2 minutes was me walking the heli out to the field and checking it over pre flight. The High Vibes and signal loss come when I hit the ground on my hard auto landing.
I was going to go back to the esc gov anyways until the autorotation bailout was working, But I could really use some help figuring out this one.

Attachment:
spirit-log-2015-10-07-173454.pdf [88.91 KiB]
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Author:  smgunn [ Fri 09. Oct 2015 3:37:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
After more troubleshooting I was able to find something that might have caused the motor shutdown. When I spooled it up tonight without blades I tried to run it enough to see if I could replicate the motor shutdown. What I was able to find is that when I give collective change the rpm increases dramatically. The more positive and negative pitch I'd give the faster the rpm increased. At full positive and negative pitch I had an increase of almost 300rpm. That's about 10% rise in rpm. considering I was already running the max governed rpm with my pinion I suspect that when I gave a fast full negative pitch the spirit tried to go to 3650 rpm really fast and it shut the motor down. That's just a guess though. I cant find anything else that would cause the issue.
I've uploaded my three bank settings. I was in Bank 2 at the time.

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BANK2.4ds [255 Bytes]
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BANK1.4ds [255 Bytes]
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BANK0.4ds [255 Bytes]
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Author:  Coco66 [ Fri 09. Oct 2015 7:57:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
When you say you were already running your max governed rpm, what do you mean? According to Mr. Mel?
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Fri 09. Oct 2015 10:33:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
Hello,

for sure when receiver signal is lost, then failsafe is engaged and motor shutted down.
So this may be very probably reason why it happened.

The event is logged, when signal is lost for at least 1s. So something wrong really happened.
The order of events in the log at the same time can be opposite, so receiver signal was probably lost and then the helicopter felt down which induced high vibration event.

What helicopter do you have? If there is a belt, then it can create static discharge that will lead into lost signal even in both satellites. Static discharges are present mostly in demanding manouvers when belt is touching the boom or something.

If you can't replicate the issue on the ground then it is very likely, that the problem was caused by lost signal.
Governor can be engaged again only when your throttle channel was returned to zero (hold was activated) or when the failsafe was activated.
Author:  smgunn [ Fri 09. Oct 2015 14:48:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
It's a goblin 380. I doubt very much that static was the issue. I have my belts treated, the humidity was quite high and it had rained straight through everyday for the last 15 days preceding leaving the ground quite wet. The servos never stopped responding, at least until after impact. I was doing an inverted pirouette and when I gave the full negative pitch that's when the motor just stopped. I had full control of the tail and cyclic and was able to flip it upright and guide it down for a landing. My fail safes are all set at midstick for signal loss. I lost a lot of head speed with full -pitch and motor stopping but quickly was able to flip it and recover for a hard landing.
I'm not saying signal loss didn't cause it just that I never lost control of servos, and with more than 100 flights on this setup I've never had anything like this happen. I didn't rebind my transmitter after the update.
Is the behavior of the rpm increasing that much with pitch on the bench normal? Also, what frequency should I have my gov set to for the hobbywing 100a ESC?

I was at my max governed per Mr Mel.
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Fri 09. Oct 2015 21:43:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
Thanks for the info.

It is enough that the signal is lost just for one second and motor will start to spoolup again. In some cases you will be unable to notice it if the steering is regained immediately then.

In case of version 1.3 governor bailout should be activated in case like this, so spoolup rate should be much higher during this incident.
But the bailout could be throttled with ESC's spoolup procedure.

It is normal that RPM is increased during collective pitch movement. The only important thing is, that the signal outputted from the unit is not higher, then the highest range for the ESC - if you performed throttle range calibration, then it can't be a problem. But mostly all ESC will handle this situation without issue. Issue of this kind should be visible already on the ground during testing.

But even if the ESC shutted motor down for any reason, it can't show Governor was Engaged event. This event can happen only in case of lost signal or Throttle Hold activation.

You can use 200Hz with Hobbywing for better performance. But frequency will not cause this.
Some parameters (Governor Response and Holding Performance) in the governor should be reconfigured for 1.3 version.

So from my point of view, the problem may be caused only by a static discharge, bad connection of the satellites or throttle hold switch was activated by itself (could happen in transmitter).
Last problem will be visible also with other models all will be worse over time so if you fly with other models without any problem this can be excluded.

I recommend to do more bench tests until the issue is found.
Author:  smgunn [ Fri 09. Oct 2015 23:04:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
I will be doing more bench testing. But when the motor restarted it was the the normal slow start up. I was going back to the hobbywing internal esc governor anyways because it has a reliable autorotation bailout feature. Because it will be raining again, I will spend tonight and tomorrow bench testing all day before I change anything. Hopefully I can recreate this problem and learn more about it.
I know that the esc shut down wouldn't create a signal loss but a hard landing causing it was my first thought. It was a very hard landing. I was amazed that nothing was damaged. It was rather violent and I knew for certain that I'd bent and broken all sorts of things. Lucky me.
Author:  smgunn [ Tue 27. Oct 2015 14:52:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Motor stop mid flight
UPDATE.

I found on one of my batteries the ec3 connector had a loose connection with the esc's ec3. It only happened when connected just right, but I was able to tap it and the spirit would restart sometimes, sometimes esc would just beep but spirit not restart. Crimped the connector down slightly and its tight again. I've had 10 flights (4 hard flights) and no problems with gov. The gov performance on v1.3 seems to be much better than previous version. It's better than the hobbywing gov (which is really good itself). I would like to see the bailout have adjustable settings as well as have the spirit control the startups also. I still have to have my esc set to heli soft start otherwise it'll spin out briefly every time. Other than that I like it.
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