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Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
https://www.spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3589		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  zurgxd [ Sat 05. Oct 2019 19:53:51 ]
Post subject:  Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
So, a few weeks ago I replaced a 2012 dji naza unit with a spirit + geolink. As it's much newer I thought it was going to behave more smoothly, have faster/better electronics etc. First thing I notice is that it has the same gps chip (and a low cost version of it, it seems). I find that weird, surely something must have happened since 2012?

Anyway, after doing test flights with the spirit, I find that its flight behavior feels weird and unbalanced. In short; roll movements feel kinda OK, pitch movements are too sensitive and yaw movements are too insensitive. I've been going through the software but I cant find any adjustments for that? is there none?

Sure, there are cyclic adjustments, but I don't want to mess with the roll behavior as it's OK as it is. The only yaw related settings I can see are "rudder" gain for the gyro. No manual settings.

Tried using altitude hold with stabi mode, that turns off all manual collective control and randomly moves the swashplate up and down. In flight. What...? Edit: video
Also tried enabling position hold, in flight. Looks like nothing happens?

How do I get the spirit to feel and work like a naza? What settings, what modes?

It feels very scary and unreliable right now, and reading in this forum about other problems (loss of control, crashes, fly aways and whatnot) it doesn't inspire confidence at all. I'm seriously thinking about getting something else, but I would really like to get this working safe and reliable, if it can be done!


And something else; what's up with the manual?
most of the content is written in strange english which sometimes can be very difficult to understand.

Some of the content isn't where it's expected to be. For example, it should inform about the pinouts way before asking the user to install the servos. As there no markings on the unit, it's quite crucial to know the polarity before connecting anything.

Then about geolink, it first tells the user to mount it, which I did. Then, at the next page it says that we need to calibrate it if it's going to be used outside the Czech republic... which means either dismount and waste that double sided tape or toss that 8kg machine around for several minutes.
(I'm not mad or anything, this is just meant as constructive criticism)
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Sun 06. Oct 2019 17:28:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
Hello,

first from all I recommend to set GeoLink just after the basic setup is done and helicopter will fly perfectly.

By default it should be all slow and quite insensitive to stick input. For the collective pitch it depends on the angle range you will configure.
Spirit is not doing any changes to the collective pitch so it is what your radio is commanding to. If your range is too wide it will be just too sensitive.
So you can simply make it smaller by decreasing the Collective Pitch Range value in the Limits tab. +/- 12° should be quite fine for the most pilots, but rather more experienced pilots.

To make the rudder faster, increase Sensor/Rudder Rotation Rate.

Regarding Elevator response it is very same as the Aileron at any time, if mechanics is configured properly (and servo arms are of same length for all cyclic servos). It is likely that heavy helicopters will react differently due to its mass. For this reason Advanced/Elevator Filter could mitigate the issue which often occur (bounce back). For bigger helicopter value of 3-4 will do the job.

Regarding Hardware GeoLink has the latest chip and performance line actually, which is the fastest option in the market.
Once you will be satisfied with normal flight behavior we can proceed further.

Manual is written to supplement the Spirit Setup Wizard. It is ideal to use instructions written in the software if you are not familiar with the Spirit units yet.
Author:  zurgxd [ Sun 06. Oct 2019 18:56:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
ZeXx86 wrote:
Hello,

Hi!

ZeXx86 wrote:
I recommend to set GeoLink just after the basic setup is done and helicopter will fly perfectly.


Yes of course, I did the basic setup before messing with the geolink.

ZeXx86 wrote:
By default it should be all slow and quite insensitive to stick input.


Well, that was not the case as the pitch control was very sensitive. Much more than I'm used to.

ZeXx86 wrote:
For the collective pitch it depends on the angle range you will configure.
Spirit is not doing any changes to the collective pitch so it is what your radio is commanding to. If your range is too wide it will be just too sensitive.
So you can simply make it smaller by decreasing the Collective Pitch Range value in the Limits tab. +/- 12° should be quite fine for the most pilots, but rather more experienced pilots.


I don't have any issues with the collective control in manual mode, it's working fine. I always run it at +/- 12° so that is what my fingers are used to, even if I actually never use more than half of it.

The only issue with collective is that it gets locked up when enabling altitude limit. And it is obviously not my radio that is doing that..
I've disabled the altitude limit as I don't really need it, I can limit it manually with the help from my OSD.


ZeXx86 wrote:
To make the rudder faster, increase Sensor/Rudder Rotation Rate.

I will try that next time.

ZeXx86 wrote:
Regarding Elevator response it is very same as the Aileron at any time, if mechanics is configured properly (and servo arms are of same length for all cyclic servos). It is likely that heavy helicopters will react differently due to its mass. For this reason Advanced/Elevator Filter could mitigate the issue which often occur (bounce back). For bigger helicopter value of 3-4 will do the job.


It does not "feel" the same, but maybe it could be due to weight distribution then. maybe the naza masked it somehow.
The mechanical parts were set up as good as it gets several years ago, with the use of the original swash leveler tool (that sits under the swash).
I put the elevator filter on 4 and it feels a little better, but not ideal yet.


ZeXx86 wrote:
Once you will be satisfied with normal flight behavior we can proceed further.


Somehow I got the stabi mode to work today. The "normal" mode feels pretty nice and balanced. The coaxial mode however, was terrible; there was barely any reaction to stick movement at all, just felt like it was tied to the ground :D Probably no use for me.

When I enabled geolink position hold the model just nervously wiggled around, like it couldn't decide where to stay. Is that expected?
With the naza atti gps mode, it would lock in place after a few seconds.
Author:  denis747 [ Sun 06. Oct 2019 20:10:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
Mine stays in one place when the Geolink position hold is activated.

And flightwise it flies as good as the Brain 2 that I have on my other heli. I run +12 /-12 degrees collective too and it ain't over sensitive to me.
Author:  zurgxd [ Mon 07. Oct 2019 18:52:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
I increased the rotation speed by 2 steps, just to see what effect it had. It did not affect the sensitivity, it just increased the maximum rate of rotation.

2 questions I cant find answers to in the manual:

How do I lock the tail blades? For other controllers, I just used 0% gain and they would stay locked. But that does not seem to work with the spirit.

And how flexible are the stabi modes? Any rules for operating? Is it like the naza, where I would engage it at a certain altitude and disable before going back down?
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Tue 08. Oct 2019 14:37:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
Hello,

what do you mean by Sensitivity?
Do you expect different stick behavior?

If yes, you can change Rudder Dynamic value.

All this is described in our Spirit Tuning Guide:
http://manual.spirit-system.com/index.p ... ning_Guide

If you want to set Tail to its center, then enable Rate mode by decreasing Gyro Gain under 0% (while Stabi/Function is Disabled).

You can engage and disengage any feature you want at any time, but the safest way is to engage only in high altitude and disengage always before landing (Except Automatic Landing).
Author:  zurgxd [ Tue 08. Oct 2019 19:24:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit flight behavior fine tuning
ZeXx86 wrote:
what do you mean by Sensitivity?
Do you expect different stick behavior?

If yes, you can change Rudder Dynamic value.

All this is described in our Spirit Tuning Guide:
http://manual.spirit-system.com/index.p ... ning_Guide


The relationship between stick deflection and the actual yaw movement. I have to push a lot on the stick for the yaw action to happen.
It's just a bit insensitive.

I can try changing the rudder dynamic value, but the manual says it's related to stopping? I'm happy with how it stops as it is now, it's smooth.

ZeXx86 wrote:
If you want to set Tail to its center, then enable Rate mode by decreasing Gyro Gain under 0% (while Stabi/Function is Disabled).

I had that setup, gyro gain on ch 5 controlled by a switch that alternated bewteen positive and negative gain, but nothing happened.
Then I found this thread: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=822369

So I then put bank switching on ch 5 instead of gain, and made one bank with normal HH gain and another bank with rate gain (negative)
A flip of the switch will center the blades/servo, but not lock it at zero, they will still move around a little. I can live with that though.


ZeXx86 wrote:
You can engage and disengage any feature you want at any time, but the safest way is to engage only in high altitude and disengage always before landing (Except Automatic Landing).

OK, I'll take that as I should take off and land in a "normal" mode, as I've always done with the naza.

What's the actual difference between using a stabi-mode and position hold, except the gps-part? Wouldn't they do the same thing?
Will there be dangerous interference between them if I happen to enable both at the same time? It's a little confusing when there isn't just one stabilized mode.

This is how good position hold works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34WzaNlrWj8
Attachment:
spirit-log-2019-10-14-164734.pdf [77.68 KiB]
Downloaded 20 times


I don't trust any unit that does uncommanded movement, it could crash itself or kill someone. Which effectively means it's grounded.
I regret buying this piece, I really thought it was a properly tested and fully working product.
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