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For Staff very important(Solved)
https://www.spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2613		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Pino74 [ Tue 26. Jun 2018 7:39:25 ]
Post subject:  For Staff very important(Solved)
Hello everyone.I'm desperate because I do not come to the head of a situation, and I no longer know what to think.in practice I have a micro spirit on a trex 250, and I have a new regulator Castle
talon 25 amp and new a ubec from 3a, new servos (Savox) , and a Radio Spektrum dx8 gen2.ho also the grounding system,tail with motor support, i have check continuity and all work perfect... but I already lost the radio signal with the satellites 3 times and I changed 3 different satellites, two were fake, I was convinced that they were the ones, the last one took new and original, specifically a spm4648 autobind, and even with this last, I found the radio by the receiver, and from the log of the control unit, I find the voice receiver lost signal, just before flying just connect the battery at heli, so I exclude categorically the ESD ON THE BELT.I also changed the receiver's cables, got some new and better, moved the bec, the regulator,(far from satellite) I took every precaution possible, and I always find myself after a while that the satellites, lose the signal and not they are more good in general. I read all the forum, on similar problems, and I followed the letter all the advice when similar situations happen. I'm whipped, I do not know if I change radio and system, the radio is new is a dx8 gen 2, never fall or other, and on other models with the satellites have never had problems, similar, I talk about drones.What can I do to solve? if I wanted to use a receiver spektrum, not the satellites this time, which one would you recommend? how many channel?
I also attached a scrEenshot of the log, and the strange thing is that I lose the signal of the receiver immediately, then low power, but everything works well, and the lipo is charged, then I disconnect the battery, connect again and the log is clean without advice(ALL GREEN) e WITH THE SAME BATTERY .all cables are new and in order and I have no false contact.

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Author:  Kluftinger [ Tue 26. Jun 2018 14:49:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
Hi Pino,

the reception of single Spektrum satellite (4648) is probably not good enough for a helicopter.
This receiver is made for 250 size race copter, where it can be installed exposed on top of the copter.

I'm running tree 250-300 size helis with 4649T receivers and the RSSI drops down to 20% at a distance of 80-100m. But the RSSI is referring to the telemetry signal, not the control signal.

I positioned the antennas in a V-shape in the back of the heli on two rigid tie-wraps attached to the struts. Fix the antennas with shrink tube to the tie wraps. This technic is used on race copters and works best. The antennas do not swing around in the down wash of the rotor, stay straight and the radio waves hits them from the side.

If you want to use a 4649T, then I recommend to use also a Hobbywing Platinum 25A v4 ESC.
This combi let you use the excellent Spirit governor and you get rpm and voltage reading in the telemetry.
Author:  Pino74 [ Tue 26. Jun 2018 16:42:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
Thanks for your Help

Klufinger

II have already read your post where you have 4649smp on the 250 and that's fine! I will also buy that, hoping that the cause are the old satellites 3 in all, 2 fake and an original spm4648, not compatible 100x100.can one day show me with a picture the installation of the antennas and what method did you adopt? Thanks!

I'm sorry but I add that I have a talon of the castle 25 amp, what do you think he could be the problem? but it is new, with the latest firmware update.I also a ubec hobbywing 3 amp, always new
Author:  Kluftinger [ Tue 26. Jun 2018 18:53:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
Pino,

I would not trust the 2 clone satellites and as far as I know, the 4648 is not recommended for helis.

Regarding antenna position:
I placed the 4649T at the end of the left side plate with antennas pointing down. Looking at the back of the heli I placed on the left strut (connects frame and tail boom) a tie wrap pointing at 11:00 o'clock and on the right strut one that points at 1:00. Both tie wraps create a "V". With a piece of red shrink tube I attached to a tie wrap one antenna. So the antennas are protected, secure and point always in the right direction (90° to the signal direction). Sorry for the blurry pic but it should show the blade.

Why do you use an extra ubec?
The Talon 25 delivers also 3A through his internal BEC and 8A short time.
Did you disconnet the red power line from the ESC connecton??
Otherwise you have two power supplys (ESC 5.5V and UBEC 5.0 or 6V) fighting each other and this will cause an instable voltage supply for the receiver and the Spirit
.

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Author:  Pino74 [ Tue 26. Jun 2018 21:15:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
Kluftinger wrote:
Pino,

I would not trust the 2 clone satellites and as far as I know, the 4648 is not recommended for helis.

Regarding antenna position:
I placed the 4649T at the end of the left side plate with antennas pointing down. Looking at the back of the heli I placed on the left strut (connects frame and tail boom) a tie wrap pointing at 11:00 o'clock and on the right strut one that points at 1:00. Both tie wraps create a "V". With a piece of red shrink tube I attached to a tie wrap one antenna. So the antennas are protected, secure and point always in the right direction (90° to the signal direction). Sorry for the blurry pic but it should show the blade.

Why do you use an extra ubec?
The Talon 25 delivers also 3A through his internal BEC and 8A short time.
Did you disconnet the red power line from the ESC connecton??
Otherwise you have two power supplys (ESC 5.5V and UBEC 5.0 or 6V) fighting each other and this will cause an instable voltage supply for the receiver and the Spirit
.


Hi thanks for your help

I have disconnected the red wire from the regulator, and I have the bec set to 5 volts, because I use the savox that work better at 5 volts (savox sh0257 mg), then both the regulator is the ubec and the servos I bought them together and are all new. and I do not have abnormal absorption on the servos, the test bec tester I overcome it quietly.I would not contradict you, but also the receiver spm4649t, not even born for heli, but for drone.the difference between 4648 and 4649, are the position of the antennas, and that one is autobind.I do not know what to think! thank for your help, I'll try to buy the spm 4649t, and I mount a new regulator, I have at home a fullpower pro 35 amp.in the case I have problems to step again to bavarian x always.can I ask you what servos you use, and on which heli you have? thanks again
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Wed 27. Jun 2018 7:22:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
Hello,

i you are getting warnings directly in your radio then the problem is very likely unfortunately in their powering.
With 250 size heli you can't fly too far so you really can't get in a troubles with just one satellite in a normal situation.

Moreover if you are using spm4649t or similar which has standalone regulator inside it is completely separated from unit and even if FBL unit will die for any reason, you should get still full signal.

So the only case when you can loose the signal is when there is not enough power.

Unfortunately Castle BECs, especially these internal from ESC are not the best, they require very often at least some additional capacitor to cover brown outs.
Moreover usage of Savox 0257 will add you even more troubles, since they are not designed for flybarless usage. They are equipped with DC brushed motors that can draw a lot of current and if overheated it can easily shutdown the BEC or burn if BEC is strong enough.
If you will set higher servo frequency then it is even easier if you are doing a lot of stick movements.

So Castle ESC + these Savox servos are unfortunately not good combination at all. The servos will also not offer you good precision, so by usage of a different such as MKS DS92A+, DS93 or even some cheap Turnigy 306MG you can dramatically improve flight performance and solve current draw issues.

To verify that this is really the case you can perform BEC Tester. No satellite should flash or indicate a signal loss (either in log or in your radio).

I would not switch to a different radio, your setup must work well. Instead usage of ESC with a better BEC can be the best solution. For example HobbyWing V4 Platinum 40A.
Author:  Pino74 [ Wed 27. Jun 2018 7:31:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
OK Thanks for your
your answer, i will change esc....and servo, I seem to understand that the problem is not only the esc but also the servo it that are not used for flybarless.for receiving it spm 4648 me the adviser?its compatible or no, on the spirit?

Thanks Again
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Wed 27. Jun 2018 7:42:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
Unfortunately 4648 should not be used on helicopters and also I can't answer how much it is compatible. But if you are concerned about safety, I recommend to not use it at all. At least not now until it is proven to work reliably.

Instead of satellites you can get SPM4649T which could add additional safety, telemetry and integration features as well.
But with a proper BEC it must just work with any combination or satellite.

With the new ESC you do not have to change servos but servos with coreless motor will be definitively better in all areas.
Author:  Pino74 [ Wed 27. Jun 2018 7:56:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
Many tahnks, and sorry for my lament
on the forum, I hope you'll understand me, I feel flogged, I've had 3 crashes in one year and I had to rebuild 3 helicopters from scratch including a trex 500 new, anywhere, at home I have a new ESC of is the FULLPOWER 35 series pro with internal bec, IT GOOD FOR YOU on the savox 0257 mg?

Thanks again
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Wed 27. Jun 2018 9:19:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: For Staff very important
No problem, I understand it is very hard sometimes.

Unfortunately I have never heard about FULLPOWER ESCs so I can't comment about it.
I always recommend to use BEC Tester that is integrated in our software. With this you can make some conclusions. If it will fail, then it is always certain that it will not work properly when flying.
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