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[SOLVED] Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
https://www.spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  scornflake [ Sat 27. Aug 2016 0:14:36 ]
Post subject:  [SOLVED] Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
Updated to 2.1.0
Updated Wifi link to 2.1.0

* Reduced gains to 3/1
* Spools up OK, to 2250
* TH engaged
* Back into ID1 and it spools PAST the max of 2500 into 2700 territory.

Scary!

What gives?

Movie of the process:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/421 ... rdness.mov

2nd test after resetting params in CC and checking pole count/kv (not that it appears to be used in CC in fixed endpoint modes):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/421 ... 20Same.mov

CC Log after the 2nd run:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/421 ... nal%3F.mov

See 52s in. Seems that the CC is seeing throttle stabilising at 1832ms, which differs from the original ID1 1378ms.
I am seeing "rpm signal noisy" in the logs (I didn't see this in 2.0.x)

Using spirit diagnostic, ID1 is 90%. Hold is 12% (1096ms according to CC log). Back into ID1 is still 90%.

Seems to point to Spirit sending a different Throttle signal after coming back of hold?


*** Musings ...
It's almost as if Spirit is doing Gov the first time it sees ID1, but then after entering TH, and reentering ID1 (second time) it's passing through 90% throttle directly to the CC...

Attachments:
File comment: Castle log of the 2nd run
14.2.csv [10.67 KiB]
Downloaded 60 times
File comment: Setup
2.1.0 Gov Gob 570.4ds [255 Bytes]
Downloaded 62 times
Author:  jgiannakas [ Sat 27. Aug 2016 1:08:12 ]
Post subject:  Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
You can plug in a servo in the ESC port of the spirit and check whether spirit sends out a different signal by how much the horn deflects. Then you'll have narrowed down your investigation at least :) (using a Y lead as you need the motor to spool up as well for rpm sensing to work)
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Sat 27. Aug 2016 11:10:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
Hello,

I think that the problem is here:
Quote:
Using spirit diagnostic, ID1 is 90%. Hold is 12%


Your hold should be always at 0%, else in the next spoolup you will get Autorotation bailout which without blades might cause excess RPM (there is no load).
Author:  scornflake [ Sat 27. Aug 2016 11:25:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
There's no load in ID1 on the first spool either. If load were the issue, surely you'd expect the same to happen for the first spool?

And, it stays constant at 2660-2700 RPM not returning to the indicated head speed. Shouldn't the gov be trying to achieve the target headspeed? I mean, it's a gov right? Not a random number generator? It makes no sense that it'd be staying constant at 2660-2700. Unless it's given up reading the RPM all together because of the "RPM is noisy" states in the log?

btw: Had tails on and it does the same (before I took the video). Granted that's not full load.

I guess I'll go do some more testing. Can't say I'm filled with confidence.
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Sat 27. Aug 2016 11:32:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
If you activate autorotation bailout, it works completely different than normal spoolup.

When target speed is exceeded, it will try to stabilize back normally. But if the noise is present, it will measure that everything is OK and will hold the value.
After initial setting, it will not drop down, else the governor will not work correctly especially when it is unloaded e.g. during falling maneuvers.

But in any way, you should always set hold at 0% - this should solve your problem completely.
Author:  scornflake [ Sun 28. Aug 2016 10:25:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
And with new Gov, will TH of 0% get me AR bailout?
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Sun 28. Aug 2016 10:33:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
To activate autorotation bailout TC should not drop under 12%. For this you can use some switch so you can have 100% control over this.
But this is without any change for a long time.
Author:  scornflake [ Sun 28. Aug 2016 10:38:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
And fro your perspective, should I use the Castle AR bailout at all?
Author:  Adrian [ Sun 28. Aug 2016 11:17:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
scornflake, it's pending on what Mode you use CC, if you use Airplane Mode, you can fully control from Spirit, with danger of ripping gear on wrong manipulation. If you use External Gov Mode, which takes care of slow spoolup on top, you have to use CC Bailout and Spirit Bailout together, as if not enabled in CC, CC will always start with slow Spoolup once Motor stopped.
Have a look on the in dept explanation: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1364

I'm currently (Yesterday and Today) testing it with FW2.1 on 700 SOXOS with CC Edge HV and its working fine, I had to decrease Gov Holing and Gov Respond by 2 Points. But you also have to take Rampup at or below 100us, if above 100us, Motor won't stop fully on Bailout. Not really an issue taking it down to 100us but there will be a small pause to get first revolutions. Issue is reported to the Dev Team.
Author:  scornflake [ Sun 28. Aug 2016 21:18:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Exceeding max HS after coming off TH back into ID1!
Adrian,

ahhh. thanks for this info. I hadn't seen this post (don't know why) - looks excellent, I'll go take a read.
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