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Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
https://www.spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1588		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  scornflake [ Tue 16. Aug 2016 8:16:49 ]
Post subject:  Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
Hello!

I've been reading: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=824&start=20

I have the ESC set to:
* Fixed endpoints
* Gov mode

I have setup the TX endpoints to 100-102 in the TX (so that I see 0-100% in Spirit Diag), and have calibrated the Spirit to the CC, with:
* Throttle Range - Min: 950
* Throttle Range - Max: 2030

As it stands at the moment, I have throttle showing 12% on the Spirit Diagnostics tab, and in hold, as 12% the heli does NOT spool up. As soon as I raise just one click on the TX (14SG), to 13%, the heli begins spool up (to a very low speed, but the blades will turn).

If I engage ID1 (98%) on the bench, the heli spools to target speed. If I then hit hold (with 12% as my hold value in Diag), the heli begins slowing. If I re-engage ID1 it performs a slow spool up, not an AR bailout.

What I'm *looking* to do (and I don't know if this is possible so far) is to have HOLD operate as a real HOLD (blades do not turn). Yet, of course, with AR bailout.

Suggestions? I feel like I'm not far off!
Author:  Dosen [ Tue 16. Aug 2016 11:37:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
Redo the calibration and after motor stops spinning add two or three more steps to throttle range min, seems you are just at the limit of the AR window on the Castle.

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Author:  scornflake [ Tue 16. Aug 2016 11:42:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
The bit about lowering the min is something I didn't understand. Doesn't that make the calibration less accurate? You'd be changing the min point of the throttle signal going to the esc wouldn't you? In other words creating a kind of dead spot at low stick?


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Author:  Adrian [ Tue 16. Aug 2016 12:29:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
I encourage you to use External Gov Mode, don't use Multirotor or Airplane.
Reason, have a Look on my Step-by-Step guide with Castle Edge ESC and Bailout with external Governor Mode.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1364
Reading trough the Step-by-Step, you get the concept.

If for any reason you want to stick on Airplane, with fix Endpoint. No calibration required, as its fix endpoints.
Off => 1300us Full => 1800us (based on Castle Link Help)
1. configure your TX to see on Hold 0%, on Bailout training 15% and Full 100% on Diagnostics
2. Set Spirit Gov Range Min 1150us (1300us-150us) Range Max 1810us (150us lower to allow Bailout Window)
3. Spool-up ramp 150us to avoid spool-up pause coming out of Hold on normal Spool-up
4. Use Slow or Fast for Rate

This should do as well, but it's not recommended, as of no controlled spool-up in case of miss manipulation.
Author:  Dosen [ Wed 17. Aug 2016 21:31:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
scornflake wrote:
The bit about lowering the min is something I didn't understand. Doesn't that make the calibration less accurate? You'd be changing the min point of the throttle signal going to the esc wouldn't you? In other words creating a kind of dead spot at low stick?


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Yes, a dead spot at low stick. But what you are actually doing is placing TH in the AR window of the ESC. It means that your TH will not actually be 0 % throttle but the motor will be off. Follow the Castle videos on their website for the calibration. But use min and max values in the Spirit instead of your tx endpoints which should be matched to diagnostics screen 0-100%. What I ment was that exactly as they do in the video for the AR bailout calibration, when the motor stops turning they add two clicks with the tx end points, but now you do it with the min setting instead.

I prefer however to use set rpm mode for the Castle governor.

In the Castle videos they use a totally flat 0 % throttle curve for absolute 0% throttle to get the ESC to arm, this in normal mode. You could also use for example a 0-30-30-30-30 curve in your normal mode. Put the first 30% value at say 5-10% stick movement, check in servo monitor screen in your tx. This way the ESC only initializes with TH off and at low stick. As soon as you hit the 30% you set in your throttle curve you will hit your first set rpm for the Castle governor. This off course means that you cannot fly inverted in normal mode since you would turn off your motor at full low stick and also put you outside off the AR window initiating a slow spoolup, not recomended in flight [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]

Hope I didn't confuse you with the last part. This is how I set up two of my helis using the Castle governor and it works very nice, both the governor and the AR bailout. Having said that I hear the Spirit governor properly setup probably works better but I havn't tried it myself. If you have problems get back to me and I'll help you.

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Author:  Dosen [ Wed 17. Aug 2016 21:56:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
scornflake wrote:
The bit about lowering the min is something I didn't understand. Doesn't that make the calibration less accurate? You'd be changing the min point of the throttle signal going to the esc wouldn't you? In other words creating a kind of dead spot at low stick?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Please forget my description above. I missunderstood you. My description is only partially correct. Use the min max values in Spirit to calibrate your endpoints to the ESC with the two extra steps for high and low value as per the Castle videos but the AR bailout should be set using your TH offset. I have not tried the AR bailout in governor mode just set rpm mode, then it's easy to setup. Sorry for the confusion.

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Author:  scornflake [ Wed 17. Aug 2016 22:29:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
Thanks for the description.

I have no problem setting AR bailout for the CC itself, using set-rpm. That's how I had it configured on a number of hell's before I tried out the Spirit Gov.

The back story to this is that I changed from a CC -> HW ESC (using HW Gov store) on my X4II, and it was a night/day difference in performance. Punch and throttle response being so, so much better.

I have a CC80HV on the Garbin 570, so I thought I'd try to use the Spirit Gov instead of buying a new ESC. As such, I've got the ESC setup in External Governor mode, with CC AR bailout also enabled (because some other thread here said it was a good idea :-) ).

I understand that when doing fixed endpoint calibration to the CC ESC, that I do this with Spirit min/max, and not with the TX as I normally would. So I'm find with general configuration. The spirit is now sending min/max values that match what the ESC thinks is min max.

Perhaps I should rewind my question a little as well.

a) Why use ESC CC AR bailout at all? Is it *purely* for safety of the ESC?

Given that the Spirit does the AR bailout, I would not have thought that there would be a need to configure the CC AR as well. in fact, only one could really operate at once, and I assume that if TH is configured to be within the CC AR bailout window, that the CC will be doing the AR bailout and the throttle signal from the spirit will be more or less ignored, up until the CC bailout phase ends with the CC ESC itself.

My assumption is that as the CC is performing AR bailout, so is the Spirit (but it's signal is being ignored really). When the CC ESC ends the bailout, the Spirit is also in position to take over Gov duties. Of course, if the Spirit AR bailout has a duration shorter/longer than the CC, then there might be some funkiness before the Spirit Gov resumes normal operation.

b) Can CC AR bailout and Spirit AR bailout *really* co-exist?

This is probably going to be answered based on the response to (a), but I can't see how two independent systems can drive the one function.

Wouldn't it be far simpler to not use CC AR bailout at all, and rely on the Spirit AR bailout?
I feel like I'm missing something.

----

Note: I know I've kind of gone off tangent here and haven't really asked/talked about configuration of these, which was my original Q.

While testing at the field I noticed that AR *does* work. Landed in ID1 with TH enabled. Changed some stuff. Flicked off TH and it spooled very quickly. Prob not what I want to be doing on the ground, nor from stationary blades! Had to come down to normal mode (throttle 0%), then ID1 to get the slow spool.

So I figure my original bench testing was flawed. I'll need to go back and check. I'll also pull the logs from the CC 80 and see if it tells me something.
Author:  Dosen [ Thu 18. Aug 2016 8:25:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
Okay, now I understand more about your issue. I have not used the Spirit governor so I will not try to explain something I haven't done. But I think the purpose of the Spirit AR bailout is that you should not really need the ESC bailout. There are a lot of threads on the forum which describe/discuss this setup. The last thing you describe however is something you have to be careful with when using the CC bailout, always make sure the ESC sees 0% throttle before starting again after using TH with the CC bailout enabled.

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Author:  Adrian [ Thu 18. Aug 2016 10:48:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit Gov - Castle ESC
Dear scornflake

following discussion, we need to bring things down to simple setup and questions to drill into one issue after the other.
Your talking about 570 with CC80 right?
You mentioned fix Endpoints, than you should not do any calibration at all.
You mentioned 12%, I aim for 15% to have nice overlap.

Have you followed my Step-by-Step guide for CC with Bailout?
http://spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... =17&t=1364
Is there as specific question to it?

In regards to your questions:
If external Gov is used, CC allways starts with slow spoolup once motor stopped. To get fast bailout spoolup, bailout needs to be activated in ESC. If you use Spirit Gov, and want take advantage of ESC Bailout, you need to get Spirit bailout kicking in, as otherwise you get a to slow spoolup from Spirit to ESC. So we have to make sure these to bailout thresholds from ESC and Spirit meet. What we finaly get is two bailout ramps, one slower (very fast) from Spirit towards ESC and the ESC internal, which we set manual to its max speed, adding this two you end up with a 3 secound like bailout.
I use this setup on CC Edge with 600er and 700er with no issues over 200 flights doing each time an Auro.

If you only use Spirit Bailout, you need Airplane or Mulirotor mode to get no slow spoolup from ESC, as Spirit needs full control.
But you would miss smooth first revolutions as well as safety on violent spinnups if you do any wrong manipulations. Like uncheck Gov function in Spirit, giving instant like 70% after releasing Hold. Happend to me, while Gov was disabled in Bank1 doing some Parameter testing.

Best regards, Adrian
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