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PostPosted: Sun 18. Feb 2018 2:50:07 
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Is it possible with the Spirit Red to use a standard receiver and still use the Spirit governor?
I've found the guide on how to do it with satellites but I don't use them and don't want to.
The reason I ask is that I have a number of different brands of helicopters of different sizes and all use the Spirit with a Hobbywing V3 or V4 ESC and ESC governor but I just can't stop a regular tail "tick".
Too little gain and there is a tail wag, too much gain and there is a tail wag and in between there is just a constant and but irregular slight twitch left and right.
I've put up with it until now but have finally had enough so would like to try the Spirit governor as a last ditch effort to solve the problem before I change something out.
Mechanics on all helicopters are great and vibrations (I'm very fussy) are extremely low.
Thanks :)


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PostPosted: Sun 18. Feb 2018 10:32:54 
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Hello,

unfortunately it is not possible as you can see in the manual.

Please see this section:
http://manual.spirit-system.com/index.p ... n#GOVERNOR

But I am afraid that the problem will be rather not in governor from the ESC, but just settings. Can you tell all the details about your models including settings?
You can attach 4ds file here. HobbyWing Governor is usually working quite well so rarely it is causing a troubles.
I am sure it can work also with this governor well.

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PostPosted: Sun 18. Feb 2018 12:21:40 
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Hi, please find the attached files.
I have spent a lot of time playing around with rudder dynamic, delay, gains and tail mechanical positions and these are the settings that seem to cause the least issues so far.
The X5 has the standard Gaui tail servo, the X3 has a BK5001 and the 520 has KST565x.
It's strange that with 3 different sized helicopters with different size and speed servos I still have the same issue, the only things the same are Spirit, Hobbywing and the receiver.
I have a new 450 heli' with Vbar and ESC without governor and I managed to get the tail rock solid on that one in only three flights which is another reason I am no longer happy with how the others are flying.
I do hope you can help, thank you once again.


Attachments:
XL520.4ds [255 Bytes]
Downloaded 10 times
Gaui X5.4ds [255 Bytes]
Downloaded 9 times
Gaui X3.4ds [255 Bytes]
Downloaded 9 times
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PostPosted: Sun 18. Feb 2018 13:26:54 
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Hi,

thank you very much for the details.

Gaui X3: Used servo is for cyclic, so to achieve a proper performance it might be not that easy.
You might need to use Revomix in that case (value 2-3 should help)

Gaui X5: Set Rudder Delay to 0 and Pirouette Consistency to 180.

XLpower 520: Set Rudder Delay to 0 and Pirouette Consistency to 175. You might try to use a longer servo arm for your servo. Then redo Rudder End-points.

Please note that basically all Gaui helicopters require ball reamer to make the mechanics smooth. Each ball linkage is moving very tightly out of the box. So without usage of a reamer the performance is worsened by maybe 10 times including much higher servo load (apply also for the Cyclic).
This is the most common issue when one can't achieve a proper tail performance. Some other kits such as from Mikado, SAB require reamer as well.

The VBar has preconfigured Revomix by default, but we recommend to not use Revomix at all if possible. The result is that it could work even with such tight mechanics, but due to increased load the servos would not be happy at all.

Next thing that is important is mechanical center of the tail. When you enable Servos/Subtrim (tuning) all servos must go to the center exactly. At the same time on the rudder there should be small angle between tail blades so that there is 3-4°. This can improve performance as well.

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PostPosted: Sun 18. Feb 2018 20:29:32 
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Hi,

Thanks for the tips, I’ll try them out.
I use quick uk ball links which are smooth and not tight.
All of my servos are perfectly 90 degrees and have the tail blades offset as you recommended.
As for he BK servo, they are advertised as a very quick servo for the tail?
I’ll see how I get on :)


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PostPosted: Sun 18. Feb 2018 20:38:01 
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You are welcome.

Well BK5001 is designed to be cyclic servo, which has little bit different internal regulation than the tail servos. In any way it is pretty fast, so it should work too. BK5005 is designed for tail.
SIDE NOTE: If you will sometime in the future buy a servos, I recommend to get from a different brand (any other, preferably MKS). But in any way parameters are very good.
I am saying this, because experience from many pilots are not the best and our personal experience with the company itself too. So actually many problems were caused by the behavior of the servos, while it may look like some configuration problem. After bench testing one can find some odd behavior in such bad cases.

But I don't want to say, that it is your case. The servos are normally working very well.

For Gaui x3 you can set Rudder Delay to 0 too, this should help too.

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PostPosted: Sun 18. Feb 2018 21:10:26 
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Awesome, I’ll let you know how I get on.

Cheers :)


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PostPosted: Mon 26. Feb 2018 1:04:19 
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Hi ZeX,

I've spent the last week testing after trying the settings you mentioned on my XL520.
I still can't get rid of the irregular micro stutters on the tail. I have the settings attached and my radio gyro gain up as high as it will go without wagging which is 90%.
I have tried the piro' consistency on many different settings and it didn't make a difference so I put it back.
The tail is mechanically very smooth, if it were any better you would think it was worn out and the servo horn is a perfect 90 degrees with the built in tail offset (this is how the factory geometry is too) so that it hovers straight even in rate mode.
I have tried adjusting the tail end points but that didn't make any differences either.
It is a slight twitch in the tail with the tail only stuttering irregularly about a centimeter or so at most but it is quite noticeable and annoying now that I know that is not normal.
I do hope you may have some ideas?


Attachments:
XL520.4ds [255 Bytes]
Downloaded 6 times
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PostPosted: Mon 26. Feb 2018 8:32:52 
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Hi,

the irregular twitching is really not normal - this could be only mark of:
- Very high governor gain
- Extremely high vibrations - can be seen at the plot (this would be visible with main blades off at the ground)
- Bad mounting of the unit - something (a cable) is touching the unit
- Some issue with the servo (this would be visible with main blades off at the ground)

Usually this behavior is caused by too high governor gain, when it is twitching with the motor itself. This twitching is then very visible on the rudder and ca be also heard as the motor is not happy about that. Then it can cause a various oscillations as when there is too high gain too.

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PostPosted: Mon 26. Feb 2018 9:22:32 
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Hi,

Thank you for the reply.
I have the governor turned off at the moment, vibrations are very low with tail blades on and almost nil with blades off on all my helicopters and the main blades are balanced as well, I can send you a screenshot if you need?
I am using a single layer of grey 3m tape for mounting and the leads into the unit don’t touch the unit or frame for about 3cm or so where they are cable tied.
The heli’ Sounds great in the air, smooth and constant in the hover with no motor changing/surging that I can tell and performs fine.
The tail servo performs fine and makes no sound on the ground or glitches.


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