Spirit System
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Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
https://www.spirit-system.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2016		 Page 2 of 6
Author:  gabrielwong1991 [ Wed 21. Jun 2017 1:50:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
Kurt wrote:
I used to set the cyclic rate to 13, but I tried setting it back to 11 to check. But that made no difference. I test this every flight now, and it always fail.


Are you sure you have enough cyclic pitch? Mine set at 10 degrees so that it wont have boomstrike in aggressive moves. If you have wrong cyclic throw value in Spirit you might find it hard to compensate.

Furthermore, do you have high enough cyclic gain but to an extent the head doesn't wobble?


I believe the system initialise and generate an artificial horizon so that values of horizontal , vertical, yaw axis are at [0,0,0] each. The 5 degree tilt doesn't affect much actually because in normal flight, flybarless gyro are used just to compensate or smooth out from your inputs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF1TAfptTXM&t=78s

In regards to rescue, I could guess it by minimising the closest distance from your rescue activation point to horizontal, vertical, yaw axis to values at [0,0,0] each, which is your initial bootup point... So the 5 degree may affect... not sure
Author:  Kurt [ Wed 21. Jun 2017 5:10:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
It is setup with 12.5° collectiv and 12° cyclic pitch. The thing i changed from 13 to 11 is the rotational rate. And I'm very happy with how it flies. It is only rescue that is the problem. And the 5° tilt will of course not affect normal flight. Only rotational rate gyros are needed for that. And they know nothing about absolute positions. But it will affect rescue if the unit assumes that the horizon it see when booting up is what I want it to level to during rescue.

Sent fra min SM-N910F via Tapatalk
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Wed 21. Jun 2017 7:04:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
Kurt: Is it possible to try it with governor sensor plugged off in the PIT pin (and governor disabled in the unit) and also without a fan of the ESC (if used)?
Thanks.
Author:  Kurt [ Thu 22. Jun 2017 20:58:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
Yes, I could try that. At least the disable governor part. A day where I have a bit of spare time at the field.

I'm a bit more skeptical about the fan since the reported temperatures are crazy high. Clearly a lot higher than the actual value though, so I have no idea what the real temperature are.

I had a short session today, and saw ESC temp values as high as 198°C (with the fan). Which would have let the magic smoke out of any FET that I have read the datasheet for. So clearly wrong. Any idea why the ESC temp read from my HW Platinum 120A through the Spirit ESC telemetry integration are so much off? And is there a clever way to calibrate it? I'v been thinking about fridges and toaster ovens, but are a bit reluctant to stick my helicopter in any of them :-)

Why should I try to disconnect the fan? Are you worried about vibrations coming from it? Or electrical noise? With the crazy high temp readings, and no way to tell the real temperature I'm not to keen on flying it very hard without the fan. And if I'm just hovering around and doing soft maneuvers I don't think that would provoke the massive drift that I see during my normal flying style.

All the flights today exhibited the same behavior BTW. Pretty level bailout right after takeoff, and leaning about 45° forward and 45° to the right towards the end of each flight.
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Thu 22. Jun 2017 21:06:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
Thank you for the details.

The reason for fan disconnection is that there was a pilot which suffered from similar problem (also with hobbywing and with supplied fan), but once disconnected everything was fine.
After investigation we have found that it is causing a sort of noise which is making big troubles even if the fan was outside of the helicopter.
This was reason why I recommended to disconnect it and actually you have fan too.

Regarding temperature reading it will be fixed in the upcoming firmware. We have found that HW 120 has a big difference in the readout for unknown reason. But all is sorted now.
Author:  buell47 [ Thu 22. Jun 2017 21:21:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
ZeXx86 wrote:
Thank you for the details.

The reason for fan disconnection is that there was a pilot which suffered from similar problem (also with hobbywing and with supplied fan), but once disconnected everything was fine.


Hi Tomás,

you talking about me? :-)

Yes, the original Hobbywing fan on my T-REX 550L was a crazy rescue problem. Spirit mounted on the left side of the nose and the HW ESC with Fan on the right side.

I purchased a better fan from a other brand a problem was solved.
Author:  Kurt [ Thu 22. Jun 2017 21:41:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
Do you believe it is electrical noise on the power bus that is the issue with the fan? Or vibrations? Just find it hard to believe that the tiny fan with such crazy RPM would create vibrations in any part of the spectrum that would be able to cause any issues, or even reach the spirit.
Author:  buell47 [ Thu 22. Jun 2017 21:56:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
Only Vibrations from the fan was my problem.
Author:  Kurt [ Sat 24. Jun 2017 21:46:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
I did a flight without the fan connected today. I was surprised how little effect it had on the temperature of the ESC. But it did not help anything with the bailout. It was very level in the beginning of the flight, but towards the end it was leaning diagonally forward so much that it would barely climb, but rather shoot forward instead when hitting bailout from a hover. I also tried to tune cyclic rotational speed down to 9 without any effect.
Author:  ZeXx86 [ Sat 24. Jun 2017 22:00:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Rescue forces helicopter towards the ground.
Thank you for the message.

If you are absolutely sure that all the points in the wiki page I have linked are correct including vibrations (measured by Spectrum Analysis) then the problem could be theoretically just in the unit itself.
The best to try is to check with another Spirit unit (if you have other) and compare the results. In any way I never recommend to try it in the flight for safety reasons (if it is working in such way). Always after landing, then it is perfectly safe.

There is possibility we can send you another unit to test or that you will send the unit to us for checking.

It must work always perfectly so if you can see such bad operation, something must be very wrong. If it worked previously and the helicopter does not crashed, it will be very likely not vibration issue.
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